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Life in the Empire

Thought to continue the discussion down here as it is going (evolving) in a different direction in the main room. Turns out the dynamic involved more than a "word," but the "word" was a flag for much of the whole thing.

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Marko, I was going to make a joke about your post (the poo part), but on reconsideration, I'm worried about you, man. I just sense that you need to give yourself a break before you pop a fuse. Be assured that we all care for you. Yes, even me. That said, please take care of yourself. Wars are never won in one day. (at least not that I'm aware of)
Thank you, BO. I have a leftist Constitutionalist friend who would say that you're allowed to make a joke, I'm allowed to blow a fuse, and it's called democracy. I say it ain't even close.

The military traditionally allowed personnel to gripe, as it was a safety valve and therefore good for morale. Corporate government controlling people by catering to their basest desires and fears isn't democracy. Democracy is when people have power over government. Power is more than just the right to gripe or cuss or get caught up in public spectacles. Power over government is more than being able to hire and fire but not to have a voice in economic policy that determines whether or not you can stay in business. Power is making policy and making decisions. In a democracy, power is shared, not handed over to an elite few the way it is in our oligarchy.

The war in Honduras was won in a day. Their democratically elected President wanted to join ALBA, and was even talking to the people about the idea of citizens being able to vote directly on their Constitution. So the U.S. Ambassador and the U.S. Military Attache, and the U.S. CIA Chief of Station told their U.S.-trained torturers, who, thanks to their U.S. training as the School of the Assassins (WHINSEC) headed the Honduran military, that the U.S. wouldn't interfere with a coup and would support it (that was just a hint, not a direct order, so there's implausible deniability), which is what the U.S. has done.

It is revolutions that aren't won in a day, because they require a revolutionary consciousness, and you can't raise the consciousness of people who already think that they know it all and that "all" is which (privately owned) teams are going to make the play-offs.

As I told my leftist Constitutionalist friend, if you sense that you are being oppressed, that some jackbooted thugs are about to stomp on your neck, the first thing you want to do is check to see if YOUR boot is on somebody else's neck. Because if it is, you only have one leg free, so you can't run and you can't fight.

He didn't get it. He said that if he has been oppressing somebody and he took his boot off their neck, they might run away or seek revenge. So there's a lot of people who can't achieve revolutionary consciousness because they're going to keep their boots on other people's necks until it is too late to run or fight and they've been stomped on themselves.

And that's a muthafuckin' shame, the adjective having been selected to convey a precise and accurate meaning. So the problem isn't immigrants, it's our government making trade deals and getting oil and mineral concessions and paying death squads and warlords to force people off their lands and convince them that it is worth risking their lives to try to come here, because if they stay where they are, we're going to kill them just like we killed their family and their neighbors. Of course by the time they get here, some have been in concentration, I mean refugee camps for decades, and many of them are battle-hardened and have an attitude, but most will take any job they can get.

And anyone who is more worried about the word police than about the police police, is fast asleep.
Mark, what I am going to say here I am going to say clumsily because words are inherently flawed and I am not particularly talented in their use. I also say them reluctantly because I have no desire to see you highlight them sentence by sentence and rip them to shreds which you will inevitably find it necessary to do. But I will say them any way because you have spoilt a small haven (RBC) I had in life where I could escape the harshness of every day life and find some solace amongst like minded people who are as flawed as I am by the very fact that they are humans but are aware of it, humble about it and do their own flawed best to lead a good life within the limitations of being members of the human species.

Your ideas are faultless and admirable. You have had the courage of your convictions to the point of losing family, friends and jobs and living a life as close to your philosophy as you can. Well done – and I say that without sarcasm. Your ideas are no different from the conclusions I came to myself. I had the choice then of throwing myself to the wolves to die as a martyr going out with the satisfaction of knowing I had died being ‘Right’ or quietly refusing to participate in the cesspool that was society by committing suicide. I found I did not have the constitution (courage) for the former … and I tried the second option twice and bungled it. At present I do whatever is necessary for my own survival, influence what I can where I can in accordance with my convictions and limited capacity and question my motivations and decisions daily. That is the summary of my ignoble credentials. In Waldo’s words I am a ‘good german’ who every now and then has the satisfaction of being a subversive ‘good german’ and striking a blow for morality, etchics and human freedom from oppression. I am currently a departmental manager in a global corporate and use ‘stolen’ money to keep myself and my 5 dogs alive in a modest lifestyle that is nonetheless consumerist and by the standards of the worlds poor profligately privileged. In short I am probably everything you despise.

Ok – that’s me and where I am coming from. I am a hypocrite. aware of it and constantly reviewing that fact and trying to minimise the harm that it does to others. I have great admiration for people who are able to go further than I can along that road. My normal response to any interaction with them is to become sensitized again to my own inadequacies and resolve to do better. I have not had that kind of response to your recent fulminations on RBC. In fact I’ve had a strong emotional reaction to your presence here where I’ve wanted to ask you to please go and kick sand in the faces of the kids in some other sandpit. That doesn’t mean I do not think you have things worth saying here or that I don’t have a lot to learn from what you have to say. I just wish you could find ways of saying it that were more appropriate for the forum you have chosen to participate in. The impression I have of you from your posts is of a disenfranchised alienated individual who has run out of options for meaningful contribution to the social order except for venomous oozings in places where you are safe from any kind of reprisal.

Your cowardice and hypocrisy are definitely lower on the scale than my own, but they are cowardice and hypocrisy just the same. You know the evils of computers and yet you use them as your medium anyway …. as if the extreme age of your computer or using a library’s computer lessen that hypocrisy.

Ok – go ahead now and rip my ramblings to shreds highlighted sentence by highlighted sentence … or go to the other extreme of relegating what I’ve said to the proverbial dustbin of things not worth replying too. Either way it’ll be unpleasant for me. Either way you will remain a hypocritical coward who got your jollies by notching up the number of people you could upset with your destructive sniping. And either way you will have spoilt the one safe haven I found and enjoyed and looked forward to reading each day when I got home from the fray out there. Well done. Great achievement. So much more constructive and admirable to take to task harmless statements by people here (like Bo’s mentioning he’d like to own a music album he enjoys) than take a stand with your moral rectitude that could endanger your own precious life. You have found a way of living off the scraps of this evil society’s table. That doesn’t make you any better than those of us that contribute to the fact that there are scraps for you to live off. Some of what you say here is well though out and informative … the rest is masturbation that is really best done in private unless it is upsetting the audience that brings you off.
Hell of a post, Cal.
Yeah, it really is. Whether I respond or not, I lose.

Well, having had others spoil various forums for me, that's the last thing I want to do unto others.

Cal's wrong about me having the courage of my convictions to sacrifice stuff. I just didn't have the stuff to sacrifice and didn't see the point of trying to get it just so that I could sacrifice it.

In fact, I stupidly thought not having stuff would save me the trouble of suicide, because one of the lies I'd been told was that you had to have family, friends, jobs, etc., to survive. Turns out it's just the luck of the draw. Bummer. But when you've peeled off each shell on the onion of lies, the only thing left is the tears in your eyes. Bum again.
I let Cal know that she had produced a hell of a post because it was heart felt and she obviously put some effort into it. I had reservations complimenting her on it because I thought you would interpret that sentiment as an affront to you, Mark.

Personally, it doesn't bother me to be called a lover of poo. I find it rather humorous in a bizarre sort of way. But, obviously others are having a problem with the personal attacks that have begun since your arrival here. I'd rather you didn't leave, but instead, in time would realize that this is anything but a pernicious group of folk who can't or won't consider an alternative point of view. That's certainly not the case. What's being said is...if your presentation is sincere and devoid of personal attacks, then you will be most welcome here.

I think you can bring a unique perspective to the group...you're obviously well-informed, an excellent wordsmith, and I find your life experience to be interesting. It's just that this is the wrong group of folks to pick fights with. It goes contrary to the vibe that's been established here. That said, I think you'll find this group to be very open-minded and willing to look at all sides of an issue.

As long as you treat the folks on this board with respect, you'll be a welcome addition here.
Didn't say you were a lover of poo, BO. What I was saying, or at least trying to say, was that you were feeling resentful because you felt that there had been an infringement on your freedom of speech. I'd told you there had been no such infringement and you were still free to say whatever you wished. So you tried it out (poo, poo, poo--whew! it's okay--I'm still allowed to say poo) and found that you could. What I hadn't mentioned was that I was still free to respond, which I may not be any longer, but that's okay whether anyone got my point or not. What I see is everyone fighting for the right to offend people they consider friends, but furious with me for interfering. Hey, they're your friends and I'm sure I don't know them well enough to know that when they claim to be offended, they don't really mean it. I do know when I'm offended though.

And if me taking offense at and responding to ordinary, everyday, commonplace, traditional sexism, is deemed a personal attack on the sexist, and an infringement on the right of the sexist to BE sexist, we got problems. Because I'll always take offense at and respond to sexism.

Suppose Pan had replied to my post about Feinstein, whom we both loathe and despise, by saying that Feinstein's a nigger. And I'd taken offense. And Pan had said (just supposing) that it was okay, because he was using the word to convey contempt and it had nothing to do with race. Whether or not there was a black person here in such a hypothetical situation, who stated that they also found that use of the word offensive, would you say that Pan was in the right, I was in the wrong, and that I was being a word cop?

I woke up this morning with a warm and loving feeling towards the whole world, which is very unusual for me because the world's so fucked up. And that feeling carried over as I read all the posts telling me how shitty I'd been, and I still have a warm and loving feeling towards you guys. Nothing to do with words, facts, events, or logic, just a feeling, okay? Justifiable or not, that's how I feel today. Maybe it was something I ate. :)
Well... maybe we are coming to the same place... just different directions. Here's where I draw the line: LIES. Sometimes it's hard to tell... but sometimes it's not. They stuck this crap: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_pelosi_advocate_taxing_wi... up at the "other place." So here's (what will probably be) my last post at "the other place:"
______________________________
"It’s all OUR FAULT. Right?"

Yes. It is. We value our own comfort more than the Truth. So we let it happen. And that's what is getting jabbed and kicked in the nuts here : the Truth.

First casualty in any war... the one thing we had that could buy back our freedom... the Truth. And that's "whose side" I'm on... the Truth. That's what I thought the whole purpose was here... the Truth. Wrong. The purpose her is to grouse and bitch about "them." Let's hate "them." Who? The "liberal Democrats?" Who is that? Anybody we SAY it is. Der Juda.

"The urban legend site Snopes.com has already looked into this e-mail and proclaimed it to be false. We find ourselves in total agreement. It's a fraud." Got that? It's. A. Fucking. LIE. Understand?

I guess not. Nobody seems to care. So go ahead... full your page with phony "patriotic" twaddle and bark about "2nd Amendment" in defense of... what? Lower taxes? Is that it? This place is turning into Free Republic Jr. I can go THERE if I want to read a bunch of hate-laced fake-ass "patriotic" Kitch... OR... I can just re-read any book about Nazi Germany.

Das ist die Wahrheit! Du bist der selbe! Die "Anderen!" I see very little difference. That's why "they" will take "your money" and "your guns" and "your LIFE" and you won't do shit... as long as you are comfortable... for the moment. That's how it works when Truth falls prey to realpolitik and bullshit rationalization, du kleine Eichmannen.

Yeah-right. I AM a "plant." I'm going to plant my ass someplace else. It STINKS in here.

Here’s the Truth: “They” are “YOU.”
___________________________________

That's it. We all draw a line somewhere... and that's where I draw it. And I'm not going to beat a "point" TO FUCKING DEATH, OK? But a lie is a lie. Fold my arms... turn my back... extend middle digit with a hearty hi-yo fuck y'all. I aint playin that shit. Walk away. Now, it can begin with a "word," but words are woven into the fabric of sentences and traditions and myths and culture. Let them grow together... "...because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest." (Parable of the Weeds, Mat 13:29) "Hate speech" is one thing... but a deliberate slimy greasy LIE is something else.

Troll-boy is blaming all the evils of the world on the "liberal democrats" (der WeltJude) oooo kaaayyy... but here's a fake story... he KNEW it was fake... posted it... and all stand about jeering about "Pelosi" and "the government." What a bunch of low-ass mental cowards. But unlike Rady, I aint gonna say, "...either Troll-boy goes or I go." Fuck it. I just aint gonna share the same page with Troll-boy. Now he's shifted from "liberal democrats" to "socialists" and "communists" Curt pointed out that those words are "triggers." Not "hate speech," but triggers. Rhymes with another WORD. The question is... triggering WHAT?

THAT is the issue. NOT the word. All "hate speech" is an attempt to de-humanize the "other." Now, "socialist," especially to those of us who hold those perspectives... is just plain laughable. But he also uses "traitors." That's not so funny. Is "traitors" a "hate-word?" No... not if it's being applied toward REAL treason. But we all know what the penalty for "treason" is in the US of Barbarity, don't we? This kinda shit will make ME pop a fuse... and having done that once already, I gotta be careful. SO...

"Does your mommy let you say, "poo," ..." OK Mark... now you're just being "shitty." Cut it the fuck out, OK? Yer stinkin up the place. BO was expressing genuine concern and empathy... and you respond with snark. Nice. Is this technically legally "ad hominem?" Don't know. Don't care. It sucks. It's nasty. Stop it, please.

We ALL know that Marx was correct... just a bit late with his predictions. It's gonna happen... the capitalists know this... and any bourgeois with a brain knows it. That's why they have all their power tools in place, and it's not going to make that much difference to you and me if we were "correct" or not. Keep warm, dry, hydrated, fed, clean and happy. Help others do the same. That's about all we can "do." So I, for one, would rather re-focus on that.

Roasted almonds. No salt. I've been living almost an entire week on roasted almonds. Keeps yer ass clean, too.
Seems that thread was erased. Bummer. I was looking forward to reading it. Double bummer for you--having spent the effort on creating your response. How dare those guys flush a Waldo classic down the hole. Just so they can cover their tracks. Coalition of the Obfuscators, me thinks.
Coalition of the Oblivious.
Yep- either troll-boy took it down or the originator took it down. No biggie. Doesn't matter. As Mark said, you can't argue with fascists. They just keep saying the same thing... only LOUDER. Some Paulites and Paulitos migrated over after the OEN purge. No problem. The Paulites will "argue." The Paulistas (I don't think there were any of them) will discuss things. The Paulitos will just start chanting RonPaulRonPaul... you know... like USAUSAUSA lalalala... I can't hear you. But troll-boy is a freeper. They're like tweekers.

No dialogue with them except "get the fuck away from me or I'll KILL you." Of course, no need for that in cyberland. It's easier to just delete the link and move on. The COTOs were starting to grind my ass with the "Secret Society of Muskrats New Word Order International Jewish Banking Conspiracy" bullshit. Some may be true... some dubious... but it wasn't about that. It started to be single-note "it's THEIR fault... not mine. I really hit the fucking ceiling with "global warming is a fraud to get your money." It's science. Of course the usual collection of opportunists will use it as an ANGLE to make themselves fat.

Nothing bores me faster than somebody who starts quacking about their fucking "hard-earned tax dollars." As I started saying last night as I got drunker and more drunk... oh how bout a nice cup of stfu. Nobody "likes" to pay taxes. But... as we at RBC know... if it's such an affront to your whatever... then don't fucking pay them. Well, nobody's going to do that because of cops and prison and all that... so, sezzeye... your cup of stfu is getting cold. Same deal with the threaping and quacking about fucking guns. I used to be somewhat sympathetic. Now... I just say, belly up to the stfu bar, ok?

When "they" come to collect the quackers' guns... they'll turn them in-- just like the good little tax-paying law-abiding citizens they're so fucking proud of being. So I don't want to hear any of that Elmer Fudd bullshit. If they REALLY planned on offering any resistance, they wouldn't be making so much fucking noise. There ARE some folks out there like that... they are grim and determined and fearful and SILENT... like anybody with any fucking SENSE is when they think they might be about to get into a deadly scrap.

It's way too late for that tinfoil Tom Payne "patriot" shit. Shoulda been done long ago.
Well, at the risk of getting trounced, I gotta say that all this subsidizing of criminals in this country has me pretty angry as well. I am getting tired of having to pay for people's houses, new cars, and having to help bail out a bunch of criminal bankers and wall-streeters. Not to mention the hidden tax we pay (inflation) as the fed prints buku dollars to bail itself out. It's enough to make me want to throw a tea-party of my own. I DO resent the fact that I've played by the rules all my life, and those that haven't are now reaping the rewards of my efforts. I am pissed. And I do sympathize with those who believe this government is out of control and practicing economic tyranny in concert with subversion of the constitution.

I won't say that I'm against paying for the usual safety net stuff...even though I think that's even being abused beyond belief. In principle, I'm for it. Always have been. I don't think that civilizations can exist without taking care of their less-fortunate. But all the other crap is pure theft--including the undermining of the working class by ignoring our ILLEGAL immigrant problem. And if you want to see what that looks like up close? Come on over to my third-world cluster fuck of a neighborhood.

This is the aftermath of the Weimar republic. The rise of fascism is here. It's a natural reaction (I say natural because it is predictable) to the decline of empire. As kleptocracy is the final phase of a failed capitalistic state. It's fucking obvious.

I'm not surprised people are angry. I don't blame them. But I can guarantee, they're gonna get a lot more angry before this is done. I'm not ready to join a militia, but I'm not totally opposed to seeing this government challenged in ways we haven't seen for a long time. As long as whoever it might be leaves religion and race out of it, I'm all for it. Bring it on.

The best thing the citizens of this country could do at this point, is try to get along with each other, find some common ground (the rule of law) and realize that the true enemy is their government. It's happened before, it can happen again.

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