What about Op Ed News ???

[John Bessa]

I came here seeing that WP had this group after he joined my OEN group on Care2.

The problem with OEN is the paranoia associated with Rob Kall's control, which is the cause of RK's paranoia.

I think that OEN is a really powerful site, and my idea now is to try to recreate it but with a much better agenda. Rob's agenda seems to be much like Sen. Lieberman's, to confuse the world in such a way that Palestine can be eliminated: the globalist extension of Zionist banking. I believe that Kall is a pretend-liberal, that he is in fact on the hard right, and the reason I believe this is that he censored some of my writing about the Middle East, and rejected an article I wrote that attempts to show how the marginalized hunters in the US are actually the bottom line defense for reactionary politicians, and how these two forces working together have cemented the present economic collapse on behalf of the operators of the global economy who all seem to be linked to Israel.

The downside of global-level trickery and bullying that I am trying to describe, is that it gets complicated, leading to world of "truthing" and conspiracy theories.

I have been collecting the writing growing from this first article that was rejected by Kall on a Google page to keep all the writing in one place. It is mostly pieced together from smaller postings so it seems disconnected, but the basic idea is to focus on how hunters have infiltrated environmental groups such as the Sierra Club, the Nature Conservancy, and the World Wildlife Fund. The problem that is panicking me is that these groups will in turn influence Obama, creating an environmental policy that is reactionary, bringing us full circle back to what Reagan and the Bushes created. In capital terms, the environment will continued to be viewed as a resource, rather than the living thing we all depend on for life.

End of the Age of the Predator

Beyond nature was what we depend on for life is the nature that created us. We obviously evolved from animals that live in nature, and we are connected to nature emotionally. As it happens, the animals in nature are emotional themselves, and their natural affection evolved into our morality (Darwin's second paper on evolution).

If we were descendant of robots, then this would not be the case; if we were there would be no life. It is either one or the other: there is no gray area.

[John Bessa]

I invited GLloyd from OEN to come aboard. If he joins he will probably need support here getting things done. Maybe creating a username that he can just start to use.

[waldopaper]

also cool to have a resident geek!

[waldopaper]

at the uni now and just wanted to dash off a quick response to hunters infiltrating sierra club, nature conservancy, etc:
i wouldn't exactly call it infiltration... and most of the hard-core tree-huggers that i know are extremely skeptical about these organizations any more for the very same reasons that websites like OEN become corrupted... buck$. get bigger... raise funds... bring in the suits... crawl under the covers with the suits... etc etc etc.

i believe you are right about exploitation rather than a living thing. hunters DO want to conserve what's there. this overlaps with the cult of "gun owners," and i got a whole lot to say about that... but i won't. let's just say if they were all that froggy about "protecting their rights" by force, they wouldn't give a nobbydoo if their piece were "legal" or not. plenty of firearms in the ghetto... and you never hear THEM quacking about "gun control"... except that it may be a way to curb the insane violence that has most of its roots in our insane "economic system."

ok... i gotta go bore some kids.

[curt]

Well dangit again. Went in to edit to add a missing word and the whole shebang is gone. 2nd attempt;

Just got this from Rob:

"Worst Fundraising Week This Year

The past week has been the weakest in terms of readers, writers, members contributing to support OEN. If the rate we've seen contributions this week continues, we'll be in big trouble, fast. Please, if you haven't given in a while, or have never dug into your pocket for OEN, take a few minutes to help us out. Your support is incredibly important to us. Click here to donate today to OpEdNews.com, ..." it is hard work and effort and it does generate costs so if you would like to see OEN stay afloat, donate today. No more editing for me. This is gonna stay as it is. Errors and all. GLloyd? Cool. Would also like to see Richard Mynick pop up here. That dude rocks. Hell, a lot of OEN members do. Well, a few.

[John Bessa]

You might want to look at this thread on OEN: http://www.opednews.com/articles/US-Spying--Main-Core-PRO-by-Ed-Enc...

There is a lot there, but what I see is a lot of "truthing" done as a red herring to move guilt from Israel to the Bushes, what the writer calls "the fascists."

My view is that we are locked in a centuries old battle with Islam that Obama can resolve, though probably only slowly. What I see here is an attempt by the writer on behalf of Rob Kall, and his circle of Zionists, to restart "victim perception" of Israel, by dancing on the graves of the Republicans and connecting with Obama by pretending to be Liberal. As Zionists they cannot possibly be Liberal, but then this is a free country and you can do as you please, LOL.

I became aware of the Israeli / Fascist alliance in the 80s with information from a mercenary I met while I was a heavy partyier. I also noted the diamond connection with the old South Africa, a clearly formerly fascist nation, and how Israel "ran the blockades" of the boycott that ended apartheid.

In the end it was Levittown and Anaheim that destoryed South Africa by Californicating it, or Disneyfying it, and destroying the natural community of knowledge of the African people.

[waldopaper]

I dunno bout no Zonist plotz. HEY CAL... might want to weigh in on the South Africa thing.
She lives there, y'know.

[John Bessa]

I have seen this connection for so long that I don't think I can conceive of a planet without them--maybe Zionist is the wrong word. Just before the Gaza invasion, which made Zionist a buzz word, I was working with the idea of the descendants of the Zionist banks that created Israel being the banks that comprise globalism who name international and US economic policy makers, specifically Goldman Sacks.

Rob's puppets are attacking Bush while he supports the Israeli Gaza invasion--Rob attacked GLloyd for supporting the Gaza. Bush through Rice helped Israel attack Lebanon, and I am certain Bush supported the Gaza attack. Israel seems to need to have the US blessing for killing Arabs, the day Bush left office, Israel left the Gaza. So this is a reason American supporters of Israel--the majority of Jews--would want reactionaries such as the Bush family in power in American, which is why Leiberman supported McCain--an attempt to guarentee the same success he, or they, had with respect to Iraq in Iran.

I say "a reason" rather than "the reason" because (if you read the text on OEN) you would see my linking of Israel with various "fascist" causes such as apartheid in South African that I learned about when I got to know a mercenary in New Paltz; NP's party atmosphere was "open" and hence edifying. He spoke of a kinship between the Israeli military and the mercenaries killing villagers all over Africa--what we now know as blood diamonds. Israel "ran" the apartheid "blockade" by shipping diamonds to their people running the 47th Street diamond industry that was at the time the only supply.

Today it is globalism with Africa as the primary resource target, and not just blood diamonds but blood all over all the rare minerals including the core mineral for cell phones, coltan, the bloodiest mineral of them all. It is all about money, and I hate to have to say this, but Israel and Israel's supporters, and the global banks, are largely manned by men with yarmulkes these days.
If you doubt me, go to Wall Street yourself and take a look--I was surprised.

The connection, or descendancy seems obvious to me, and applying the assumptions in model format produces results. (Models are replacing theories, and the theoretical practice, as models produce results immediately if they are correct; if not they can be adjusted. With Rob's big mouth, a whole lot of adjustment is not necessary.)

Are you getting this? If this is confusing you please let me know, and I will preach to some other choir.

It just so happens my downstairs neighbor here in NW Connecticut is a Black part-time politician; he handled Leiberman's campaigns for Senate re-election. I hate to have to say this, but he is the ultimate Uncle Tom; to him all the suffering of the youth of the world, especially young Blacks, is deserved--they did it to themselves. The idea that repression extends through generations, and the influence of crack and cocaine not withstanding. He hates tribes, especially African tribes and talks about the demise of the Native Americans a long process of attrition that would have happened quicker if the Europeans had not arrived. But that does not stop him from denigrating Europeans as Whites--he is racist all around. And he gets away with it. How? Connect the dots!!

Not surprisingly from what I have said, he speaks of Palestinians pretty much as vermin in the way other Israeli supporters--American Jews--do. As an arrogant people, he says, they are natural aggressors. And he says that the rest of the Arab world hates them--more Palestinians have been killed by Bedowins than Israelis. That just cannot be--the reason the Muslim world accepts the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001 in New York City, is because of the US support for the Israeli invasion of Palestine.

I think it is also important to mention that he is a lover of ancient Rome, and sees no other structure for society, especially local culture. He is "coloni," the original colonial but a purer form. I find him so interesting because in his mind all the ancient concepts of control and killing, including slavery and sadistic brutal games, are all good things! Again I want to emphasize that he is Black, and why I think he is the ultimate Uncle Tom: he is a Roman and a Jew: ancient! He is a Fascist in the most ancient and historical sense and demonstrates how Fascism cannot be separated from Judisism because of history, even if the Fascists regularly attempt to exterminate Jews, or at least some of them.

Fascist relationships with Judism are not unheard of. I have heard reference to connections between the early Nazis and Austrian mystics who were connected to Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung (Discovery Channel). It happens that Freud was outright called Nazi-like by my favorite psychologist Carl Rogers (who brought together the US and the USSR ending the cold war). I lived downstairs from Freud descendants where I grew up in on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and they sucked!

My Uncle Tom neighbor talks about Israel as specifically being Jewish, and the birth of Israel as the return home of the Jews after so many years of wandering--wandering caused by the Palestinians! He got his start as a menial worker in Jewish enterprises, such as the Borscht Belt in the Southern Catskills. (Think Seinfeld.) His dad was a maintenance man in a Synagogue in Brooklyn and was culturally Yiddish, but not Jewish, of course. My experience with Orthodox Jews is that they will be your friends, but that is it; beyond aquaintence you will find pure bias so pure that I, like my neighbor, cannot separate between Judism from Israel; nor Israel from Wall Street; and globalism and Judism.

The "fascists" that the article talks about, Bush's people, are but puppets, in my opinion, along a long history of empirical control in the Middle East and the West. If there is any truth to the concept of a single phenomena in Science, where social Science is a Science, then there has to be a mirror in East Asia, and that would be Confucianism. Certainly not the tribally rebellious Buddhism.

One thing that the article that I believe is correct is that the whole Republican dynasty revolved around Iran/Contra, though the article does not mention the cocaine factor, and how it disabled young Black America. We both mention Elliot Spitzer, he thinks Spitzer was set up (because he is a Liberal), I think Spitzer was doing cocaine, in fact I think it was impossible that he wasn't seeing that he ran with a prostitution ring. In the article, the fact that Spitzer as not prosecuted is evidence of innocence; to me it's evidence of the corrupt nature of the elite.

While on the topic of cocaine, I believe that it is becoming a tremendous factor in Africa. Unlike other drugs such as heroin, cocaine creates homicidal monsters from thugs rather than putting them too sleep. The diamond is now so bloody that I feel sure cocaine is an influence diamond, or minerals, trade. If this true then Israel, or the "connected dots" operation based on ancient empires, is at least indirectly involved with drug-induced killing as part of its global operations.

If all, or even any, of this is true, then there is strong reason that Jews have to maintain control the concept of racism, and that people who point the bloody finger at Israel be instantly accused of racism. This is what the article is about, maintaining Jews as good people and the rest, even their allies, as evil. If the "connected dots operation" cannot control the use of the word racism then they risk the umpteenth pogrom, that is if they don't stop all this crap and pursue peace. I think they cannot; I think the operators of the operation are mental defectives missing the the empathic neurons, as high-level operation controllers have all throughout history, especially during industrialism.

And while on the topic of pogroms, the best study of pogroms in 21th century, progoms "in play" is fallout from Stalin's activities: the ultimate Roman. All pogroms in recent times in the West have been the bloody results of from conflict between the people Stalin moved around, and the native cultures that Stalin's "coloni" disrupted. This is important to Israel because Israel, Jewish religious law not withstanding, is purely "coloni," apparently pro-Roman (according to my neighbor), anti-Stalin yet supportive of Communism (Rosenbergs). It was Kissinger who initiated the process of handing over the US economy to Communist China (Kissinger, McCain, SAM sites, Vietnam in 1969).

Who needs "truthing" or even conspiracy theories; the whole sick madness lays right before us, if you open your eyes and wipe away the didactically framed haze.

And lives right downstairs from me-- damn, I have to keep this Uncle Tom talking. Does that make me racist, ha ha ha ha, you tell me!

[Cal]

No ... Cal doesn't want to weigh in on the South Africa thing. The country is widely used as a metaphor. I've found it best to read, think, stay quiet and get on with the business of living here.
Except I do have to say that no boycott ended apartheid ... nothing here was ever that simplistic.

[pan]

Just a sideline....Disneyland is in SOUTHERN California...having lived in both San Francisco and LA I feel compelled to point out that SoCal is a whole different animal than Northern California.

[curt]

hey, John,

easy now, easy, easy. I saw the article only briefly this afternoon and could not invest the time to read it but was able to scan the comments and the whole thing just took me be the reigns. I was eager to make my way home where I could read the complete article and make my attempt at properly absorbing the info. I was disappointed after (quickly) reading through it all. Lots of info, little of which I can connect with except one part which has been with me since I switched jobs eight years ago. Data mining, the NSA, Telecoms, spying on us. That part is real, for sure and people really need to learn it.

As for Rob K. and his probable part in it, my initial feeling was - "he let this get through and be headlined....is he seeing a change of heart?" Mind you, Cindy Sheehan's article was right up there at the same time and the two really looked good, very up to date and progressive, atypical for your average disinfo site. But being the eternal pessimist I now am, or better put - being as careful and cautious as I now am, I read both articles which had been removed from the headline area during my train ride home...........OEN is a strange place..............I decided to cast both bits of info aside, only to retain the basic ideas which I will be toying with over the next few days.

In short, most of the shit I read on OEN today fell through my filter and went into the mental garbage can. Nothing new and certainly nothing to get home about.

But John, I do encourage you to continue to preach to this choir. Please don't be offended if you find one of us sleeping through the service. It may not be all that obvious at first but most of us have been through all imaginable ups and downs and there's very little that can take us by surprise. As a tribe, and we are a tribe even if we try not to be, we're primarily busy keeping one another warm and entertained while we sit here watching the whole damned show go to pots. We've done most all we can to change the course this ship is on but we know it's futile.

I've said enough. Perhaps too much. You stick around, John. Rant on and take it easy. We have a while until the show really begins.

On a more personal level, I no longer wish to know all the details. Rob K. smells like a rat. He must be one.

[John Bessa]

>Rob K. smells like a rat.

Rats smell? What do they smell like?

Oh, like Rob Kall.

[John Bessa]

Let me ask my cat.

I have a catch and release cat; she caught the same mouse last night as the night before. The mouse finally hid in my old tube receiver amp, so I put it outside, and then the cat saw the mouse again this morning in the stairs and chased her into her hole.