Is Ron Paul "one of us?"

[waldopaper]

Ron Paul probably does not realize he is a Socialist… and that is a good thing. Those who have little understanding of Socialism or Marxian Theory will begin flinging words like “statist” or “collectivist” as a child would fling the epithets of “shuddap-face” or “grundy-pants.” If you are a “Ron Paul supporter” because you think the “individual” is king-cheese or your “taxes” are “too high” or you object to (pssst… you-know-who) being “chiselers on relief,” you are way too dim to read this. Please go away.

Still here? Good… now work with us on this: First, consider the wiki list of the “Political Positions of Ron Paul.” Be honest… do you see much there to disagree with? Second, stop thinking of “Socialism” as an epithet like “boogie-breath” or “stupid-head.” This is particularly hard for US citizens, but give it a shot. Now, listen to Albert Einstein: “How can the rights of the individual be protected and therewith a democratic counterweight to the power of bureaucracy be assured?” Does this sound far from the “Paul position?” Further, Einstein says, “Clarity about the aims and problems of socialism is of greatest significance in our age of transition.”

Now, check this out: under “lower taxes and smaller government” (yeah: warmed-over Reagan) “Paul has also been an advocate of employee-owned corporations (such as employee stock ownership plans). In 1999, he co-sponsored The Employee Ownership Act of 1999, which would have created a new type of corporation (the employee-owned-and-controlled corporation) that would have been exempt from most federal income taxes.” Combine this picture with the Nordhausen “Strike Bike” story that has echoed throughout the world. This idea has potential beyond the wildest imagination of most US Citizens whose greatest dream is their own McMansion and riding mower.

Some of us understand “unsustainability,” while others (like Ron Paul) are confident that The Invisible Hand will solve everything. Could we both be correct? Perhaps “free markets” need a much smaller stage to perform their magic. Maybe “collectives” work the same way. Perhaps without huge centralized subsidies, the giant prison-industrial-military cartels will simply dry up and blow away… without blowing the rest of us away. Some of us believe this can happen by cutting off their funding. Others believe this will happen if we cut off their heads.

Either way, both “Progressives” and “Paulites” seem to agree that endless escalation of guns and gulags is not in our best interest. Here’s something else: the mush-mouthed platitudes of both pre-selected “candidates” are for the ears of the stupid and the enrichment of the vampire-elites. Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, (yes- Nader and others) and yep… Ron Paul appear to be few voices with the courage to call the “War on Terror” a fraud and the USA PATRIOT Act a crime. It is telling that the “major parties” have actively suppressed these voices.

As remote as the odds are, a Ron Paul Presidency may enable the viability of true Socialist working collectives and a new form of Common Ownership. Localization as an antidote to Globalization could enable a new concept of The Commons in the USA. Still, it is uncomfortable to subscribe to such blind faith in “markets,”(among other things) and whatever Truth—to find common bedfellows among white-supremacists (it’s a fact AND YOU KNOW IT), so I am not ready to join the “Ron Paul rEVOLution.” Maybe the "rEVOLutionaries" will go to the Republican “convention” and make their voices heard.

Good luck with that.

[BO]

Sent my brother an email describing our recent experiences in Canada. Thought I'd share part of his response. I'd never get him to post here, but as you can see, he'd fit right in. Why is it some people can see this shit happening--clear as a bell--and others remain oblivious.

"The border crossing is what keeps us from visiting Vancouver. Everything is going to shit exponentially. The U.S. just one directive away from total fascism, the real deal, armored Hummers & "private contractor" thugs roaming the streets, everything privatized, including prisons, roads & bridges falling apart, global warming a reality (this is the soggiest August I have ever seen), the public treated like farm animals at the airports, pilots forced to fly low on fuel, total economic collapse just around the corner, and so on. I had wrongly assumed all this shit would not be happening till about 2050 & that I'd be long gone."

[curt]

Wait a forking minuteman. I thought you were down on them there libertarians. And what's all this chatter about socialism and where do you come off using the ....(what is it realy?) "one of us?" phrase ? Does that make me one of you? Does that make me a socialist? Hardly. It actually depends on the perspective, i.e. who is looking at or doing the evaluating. For most Americans, sure. I is. For them there (here) members of the and I do mean THE party, I aint. Well, okay, they're beyond being simple socialists. The point made above, I believe (can't really know as I didn't read it all at the pace needed to read and ABSORB textual messages.....something I learnt more recently) this is a Ron Paul-friendly piece but if Ron Paul finds the truth out - that he and me and you and Bo and Mary and prolly most people around the world to one extent or another - are socialsts. I mean, where's my wiki.

s-o-c-i-a-l
i-s-t

"all we are saying, is give peace a chance"

[pan]

I did one of those web-based self-surveys to determine your political leanings and I came out as a full-fledged Socialist.

Just saw this exchange on the Tacoma TNT site:

People don't understand the benefits for the general public
Submitted by GeeMan on August 25, 2008 - 7:28am.

This program was a win-win for the people of the state and the business that operated in within the prison walls.

Inmates were paid a prevailing wage (established by L&I based upon the same skills in the surrounding area). Inmates weren't given checks...the money was paid to the state. Inmates paid into FICA and income taxes were withheld. Next, the state took a cut of their wages to defray the cost of the inmate's incarceration. If the inmate's crime resulted in a victim (i.e. rape, assault, etc.), the state took another portion to pay into a victims' relief fund. After all these deductions, the state took out any child support/family support (as mandated by a court) and paid that to their families. Then, the remaining funds went into a savings account to ensure that the inmates had something to rely on when they were released...in addition to new skills.

The company I worked for was a metal fabrication company (mentioned in the story...but as an earlier iteration) in Twin Rivers CC. There were constant challenges in dealing with the facility, inmates' programs (all sex-offenders had to participate in programs if they wanted to work), lock down, count, etc. Sure the facility overhead was minimal, but the costs were added back in in the form of delays. In the time it took to bring a truck in for shipping or raw materials (vehicle inspections, driver background checks, etc.), any outside company would have 200-300% efficiency advantages solely from the lag times we experienced.

Too bad most of the companies (if not all) are long gone. The state is going to be hard-pressed to convince a business to move inside at this point. Any intelligent business owner will understand the challenges they face when the unions bring their full force of lobbying and litigation power to overturn this recent legislation. To step back in would be a slice of one's jugular.

Well Hell Gee Man lets ban unions
Submitted by paazin on August 25, 2008 - 7:45am.

The G-D nerve of workers demanding decent wages and benefits depriving those cons the right to work, hell lets ban the 13th too, lets end the ban of slavery, hell at least those jobs won't be outsourced. There too many uppity peons out there eh, GeeMan?

paazin...you must be a socialist, communist uniion lackey...
Submitted by GeeMan on August 25, 2008 - 9:13am.

...if you're reacting so angrily, to my legitimate perspective.

To say that prison inmate labor takes away jobs from a non-incarcerated laborer is idiocy at it's finest. The companies that were in the prison are gone along with the jobs. The only thing the union accomplished was to guarantee that the tax payers continue to bear the full burden of the incarcerated. Yeah...that's good. Dolt.

Unions have long passed their usefulness. Look at what those limo-chauffeured criminals of the organized crime syndicate (the Boeing Machinist Union) is doing. In the middle of a sagging economy, while all other industries are taking a hit (from top to bottom), the union wants to ensure they exist (at the expense of some of their dues payers) in perpetuity, guaranteeing the thugs their bigger homes and even bigger yachts without having lifted a finger in manual labor...like the poor saps that pay their salary.

Uppity peon? You obviously have no clue who you are talking to. Man, your post reeks of base-intellect and that of the prototypical marxist. So, paazin is code for Wen Jiabao, eh? You must be preparing the tanks to roll into the Tiananmen Square of Washington State, eh? Looking to protect the Peoples' Republic of Washington?

GeeMan - do you understand the words you use?
Submitted by beerBoy on August 25, 2008 - 9:19am.

Please define socialism, communism and Marxism. The context that you use them suggests that you have no understanding of them other than epithets to include with the other ones you spew (dolt, lackey, saps). While you are at it, could you provide a brief synopsis of the history of the union movement in America?
.
Please also explain how indentured servitude being awarded contracts that would normally go to the free population is not unfair competition to tax paying citizens.


beerBoy is my screen name there

[curt]

I too did an online thingy and came out a "socialist" but prior to that, I was a socialist. Prior to "being one", I had my ideals and ideas. Socialist to the max. But my ideals and ideas were i line with those of many from where I came from : poverty, broken homes, bankrupt farms, etc. Marx, okay, yeah, "took" that trip and survived. Engels too. Learned A LOT. Came out thinking "wow, these guys are okay". But then I went to bed with real communists. Whoa horsey. Stop the music. That shit aint gonna work. No way! Still play with them but in the course of learning all these things, I also learned about myself and my USA. Went back and listened to Johnny Cash again. Listened to Pete Seger again, Arlo, The Boss, Ozzy, the whole nine yards. Went full fucking circle on it all and decided it's only a matter of definition. Nothing more. We're basically, all the same, all playing off the same sheet of music. No titles needed.

I wouldn't go to Canada. Not with that kinda shit goin down. Coming home is the hardest part. Gotta avoid that! ;-)

[waldopaper]

This was a shameless bid for clicks and eyeballs (which seems to be the objective of most websites to please the advertisers). The original headline was, "Ron Paul is a Socialist." OEN rejected it. I guess they don't want clicks and eyeballs THAT much.

Never mind the fascist goons outside. Watch the Obama show!