You're not a citizen. You're a terrorist.

[BO]

2012: The year the US became a totalitarian state. 

[waldopaper]

Maybe part of the slow movement... making connections.  Or Numos and Phisis... or Blink... or something...

Meanwhile, Hedges is worried about the Black Block. 

Out of Afrika: 

[pan]

The Black Bloc movement is infected with a deeply disturbing hypermasculinity.

Just like the Freikorps......

[pan]

I have grown ever more pessimistic about the chance of there ever being a systemic solution.  Yeah sure, anarchy is ideal - but which kind of anarchy?  The anarchy of Marx's communist dissolution of nation states after the utopia of the control of capital by labor or the only the strong survive anarchy of Ayn Rand?  Even Emma Goldberg, with her desire to dance the revolution, managed to really annoy some of her former admirers.

The problem with revolution is that it requires vastly superior numbers and, as Paris 1968 demonstrated, sometimes your natural allies sit-out because they would rather deal with the known situation than risk change.  And to organize big numbers you need a charismatic leader to coalesce around and - suddenly - the whole thing reverts to another flawed systemic theory that sound great in the books but is always corrupted by individuals.

[Kate]

Stonefruit and Pan,

 I have just been reading your comments........definately something I need to read again and think over - I am currently going through the painful rollercoaster of gallstones, so just getting to the grocery store is a good day.

Pan, funny you should mention Ayn Rand, at the grocery store last week I was approached by a total stranger who wanted to know what I thought about Ayn Rand (I was just starting to feel the irritability from the gallstones) and he then offered to buy me a book - without sounding paranoid can I say it felt like a set up?

 have a doc appointment soon -

 take care all

 

[waldopaper]

Methinks is tall part of a process that's almost inevitable.  As long as everybody's nice and "peaceful," they're "dirty hippies" (and as we all know... mostly ineffectual).  I can not condemn the Halloween party boyz... they gotta be there to show that some of us are not so "reasonable."  But they are not #occupy... can not be.  They are the twilight zone where where reasons sun sets.  

The revolution will be peaceful or it will be no revolution at all. 

[pan]

"Dumb muthafuckers it's Occupy, not Destroy!"

[waldopaper]

Sis just asked for some inspiring literature to read to the ghet nigga gangsta stoods wot somebody sed somthin bout somebody's whatnot and they ready to throw down.  Course eye got plenty o blah-blah but it's math to dogs.  When "respect" actually means "fear," there aint much anybody can do.  Methinks we must preserve what we can of aesthetics from the past and throw the torch forward as best we can. 

I do not expect or desire to survive the transition.  It would be kinda cool to see where the plot goes, but don't think that's in the cards Oh how lucky (and unlucky) we were in the brief notch of birth-control and Pax Americana that we could focus on our raging hormones!  Nothing unique (the hormones, that is)... but we just had a chance to put them to the fore... and it produced a generation of art that will probably continue to touch future generations... or not.  For that "brief shining moment" before it was co-opted to sell acne medicine... well- that came first- but now it's "conservative values," which is a bad fucking Archie cartoon that few realize is a bad Archie cartoon. 

Why should they?  Their parents were going "nurdle-durr" in that brief time when the girls were et free before they realized (once again) they were sellers in a sellers' market.  Seems they been pissed of ever since.  Glad I got in on that shit.  Wish't eye wuz cute enuff to git in on it MORE.  1968... 20 years old... the "Summer of Love."  Fuck'n A.  What could be better? 

Suppose a quick death... and an easy one... is WAY more than I deserve. 

[BO]

Feelin' the end coming up myself. Been having all kinds of 'regret' dreams lately. Seems my subconscious has been berating me for all the stupid shit I did in the first three quarters of my life. We sure was lucky though. Got to live through a minor renaissance of sorts.

Get sis a taser and a set of brass knuckles. 

[pan]

What’s more, when someone does throw back a tear-gas canister, or toss a bottle, or even spray-paint something, we can assume that act will be employed as retroactive justification for whatever police violence occurred before the act took place.

All this will be true whether or not a Black Bloc is present.

His premise is that we can assume that any violence acts by Black Bloc-ers is a reaction - self defense.

And that the violence would have happened even if the Black Bloc wasn't present.

Those premises are huge leaps of faith.  When one dons a costume associated with violent actions and hides one's face to join the anonymity of the mob which is associated with violence, it is extremely generous to assume that premise.

From what I read, his primary objection to Hedges is that they are a cancer that must be excised could be read as a call to violence.  So, even while he is excusing the violence of Black Bloc-ers as self defense (not sure how he manages to turn vandalism into acts of self-defense....oh yeah....during Gandhi's time they were blowing up trains and assassinating officials so...it really isn't that big of a deal) he complains that someone who has not donned a costume associated with anonymous violence might read Hedge's words as a call to violence.

His whole case is based in the reader taking his word for it - he assures us that Black Bloc-ers never instigate violent acts against the non-costumed because.....he says he doesn't know of any cases that he believes are true.

And his reasoning that it is OK to tear up a Starbucks because it isn't a mom & pop coffee store is specious.

Sorry stonefruit.  I don't see his article as well reasoned.  It is just bullshit.

The Black Panthers were a legitimate response to police violence.  The Black Bloc are just a bunch of assholes.

[waldopaper]

I thought Graber's response WAS well-reasoned and thought-out. 

I don't think Hedges was unconsciously "inciting violence."  That's a bit over-the top... however... 

...to oppose injustice through violent means is still morally superior to not doing anything to oppose injustice at all.

Spot-on.  Which reminds me of Queen Teedie at the Chump.  Yeah, still read the Chump all the time because Teedie is a good collector... but he is a shitty manager and "facilitator."  Referring to the Rall post and cartoon "...you shoulda worked within the system."  Make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable and all that. 

If Queen Teedie wants to be an authoritarian asshole, he should stop sniveling quarterly, begging for "donations" to keep "our" site alive... and then promptly going back to MY site as soon as readers (Chumps) fill the cup back up.  Go out and get a "real job," Queenie, and pay for YOUR site YOURSELF. 

I read the site for the comments... I can get the articles form the same sources Queenie does.  M Richards is one of my favorites.  "seriously, if either one of you posts a comment below this one, you won't like my reaction" Can you understand why I threatened to shoot the asshole (in a moment of drunken indiscretion- of course)? 

I REALLY detest authoritarian dickwads who play the "collective" card to get what they want.  Like when the fundamentalist pubs start whining about being "persecuted" or the kiddie-porn catlick clerics bitching about "not having a choice."  Dissociation... again. 

So let the kids in black hoodies veer off and break a few windows.  It's not like the oinkers won't fabricate a pretext if they don't have a real one. 

[waldopaper]

The tennis match continues HERE...

[pan]

While I agree with this statement wholeheartedly

...to oppose injustice through violent means is still morally superior to not doing anything to oppose injustice at all.
I don't accept the premise that smashing windows, destroying outdoor furniture and spray painting graffiti is actually opposing injustice.

Violence should be a tactic that is utilized when absolutely necessary not just a way for costumed hooligans to let off steam.